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Tue Jul 3 18:24:09 EDT 2018 · https://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2018-July/154244.html

On Tue, Jul 3, 2018 at 2:51 PM, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Wed, Jul 4, 2018 at 7:37 AM, Serhiy Storchaka <storchaka at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > I believe most Python users are not
> > professional programmers -- they are sysadmins, scientists, hobbyists and
> > kids --
>
> [citation needed]

fair enough, but I think we all agree that *many*, if not most, Python
users are "not professional programmers". While on the other hand everyone
involved in discussion on python-dev and python-ideas is a serious (If not
"professional") programmer.

So we do have a bit of a disconnect between much of the user base and folks
making decisions about how the language evolves -- which is probably
inevitable,

Over the years I've been using it (most of its life), Python has evolved to
become much less of a "scripting" language, and much more of a "systems"
language, and this addition is a (pretty significant) step more in that
direction.

Serhiy: FWIW, a number of us made the case about the additional complexity
of this feature in this discussion -- I think it was a bit side-tracked by
the impression that we were only talking about newbies (and also by scope
of comprehensions), but the point was made and I assume considered.

> > In particularly mutating and
> > non-mutating operations are separated. The assignment expression breaks
> > this.
>

I'd call it "local namespace manipulating and non-local namespace
manipulating", but yes, that is my concern as well.

In terms of blending mutating and non-mutating operations, augmented
> assignment is far worse.

yeah -- I've always thought it was a shame that augmented assignment worked
on immutables :-(

-CHB

-- 

Christopher Barker, Ph.D.
Oceanographer

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[Python-Dev] Examples for PEP 572