You mean honestly pointing out what would happen with a suggestion? It is a horrifically bad idea. I didn't say they were bad people. On 2/26/2016 13:14, Brian Curtin wrote: > The attitude in these responses is counter productive and not really > how it works on this list. > > On Fri, Feb 26, 2016 at 1:10 PM, Alexander Walters > <tritium-list at sdamon.com> wrote: >> Ok, fine. Bring a windows build bot online. And also take on the support >> burden of guiding people to which version of which compiler you use for each >> of the currently supported python versions. And go ahead and write the pep >> to change how wheel distributions work (which will effectively kill them, so >> yeah, good side benefit there.) >> >> Want to kill python on windows for anything that needs a c extension? go >> ahead, release one version of python with 2 ABIs. >> >> What do I know. >> >> >> On 2/26/2016 13:05, Dan Stromberg wrote: >>> But what do you really think? >>> >>> IMO, windows builds probably should do both visual studio and mingw. >>> That is, there probably should be two builds on windows, since there's >>> no clear consensus about which to use. >>> >>> I certainly prefer mingw over visual studio - and I have adequate >>> bandwidth for either. >>> >>> >>> On Fri, Feb 26, 2016 at 9:55 AM, Alexander Walters >>> <tritium-list at sdamon.com> wrote: >>>> No. >>>> >>>> Visual Studio is a solid compiler suit, mingw is a jenky mess, especially >>>> when you try and move to 64bit (where I don't think there is one true >>>> version of mingw). I'm sorry that Visual Studio makes it very hard for >>>> you >>>> to contribute, but changing THE compiler of the distribution from the >>>> platform compiler, especially when we FINALLY got a stable abi with it, >>>> is >>>> going to be a non starter. >>>> >>>> Compiling on MinGW for your own edification is fine, but that's not the >>>> build platform for windows python, nor should it be. Contributions are, >>>> and >>>> should continue to be, tested against Visual Studio. >>>> >>>> >>>> On 2/26/2016 05:12, Mathieu Dupuy wrote: >>>>> Hi. >>>>> I am currently working on adding some functionality on a standard >>>>> library module (http://bugs.python.org/issue15873). The Python part >>>>> went fine, but now I have to do the C counterpart, and I have ran into >>>>> in several problems, which, stacked up, are a huge obstacle to easily >>>>> contribute further. Currently, despite I could work, I can't go >>>>> further >>>>> on my patch. >>>>> >>>>> I am currently working in very limited network, CPU and time >>>>> ressources* which are quite uncommon in the western world, but are >>>>> much less in the rest of the world. I have a 2GB/month mobile data >>>>> plan and a 100KB/s speed. For the C part of my patch, I should >>>>> download Visual Studio. The Express Edition 2015 is roughly 9GB. I >>>>> can't afford that. >>>>> >>>>> I downloaded Virtualbox and two Linux netinstall (Ubuntu 15.10 and >>>>> Fedora 23). Shortly, I couldn't get something working quickly and >>>>> simply (quickly = less than 2 hours, downloading time NOT included, >>>>> which is anyway way too already much). What went wrong and why it went >>>>> wrong could be a whole new thread and is outside of the scope of this >>>>> message. >>>>> Let me precise this : at my work I use many virtualbox instances >>>>> automatically fired and run in parallel to test new deployments and >>>>> run unittests. I like this tool, >>>>> but despite its simple look, it (most of the time) can not be used >>>>> simply by a profane. The concepts it requires you to understand are >>>>> not intuitive at first sight and there is *always* a thing that go >>>>> wrong (guest additions, mostly).(for example : Ubuntu and Virtualbox >>>>> shipped for a moment a broken version of mount.vboxsf, preventing >>>>> sharing folder to mount. Despite it's fixed, the broken releases >>>>> spread everywhere and you may encounter them a lot in various Ubuntu >>>>> and Virtualbox version. I downloaded the last versions of both and I >>>>> am yet infected. https://www.virtualbox.org/ticket/12879). I could do >>>>> whole new thread on why you can't ask newcomers to use Virtualbox >>>>> (currently, at least). >>>>> >>>>> I ran into is a whole patch set to make CPython compile on MinGW >>>>> (https://bugs.python.org/issue3871#msg199695). But it is not denying >>>>> it's very experimental, and I know I would again spent useless hours >>>>> trying to get it work rather than joyfully improving Python, and >>>>> that's exactly what I do not want to happen. >>>>> >>>>> Getting ready to contribute to CPython pure python modules from an >>>>> standard, average mr-everyone Windows PC for a beginner-to-medium >>>>> contributor only require few megabytes of internet and few minutes of >>>>> his >>>>> time: getting a tarball of CPython sources (or cloning the github >>>>> CPython >>>>> mirror)**, a basic text editor and msys-git. The step further, if doing >>>>> some -even basic- C code is required, implies downloading 9GB of Visual >>>>> Studio and countless hours for it to be ready to use. >>>>> I think downloading the whole Visual Studio suite is a huge stopper to >>>>> contribute further for an average medium-or-below-contributor. >>>>> >>>>> I think (and I must not be the only one since CPython is to be moved >>>>> to github), that barriers to contribute to CPython should be set to >>>>> the lowest. >>>>> Of course my situation is a bit special but I think it represents >>>>> daily struggle of a *lot* of non-western programmer (at least for >>>>> limited internet)(even here in Australia, landline limited internet >>>>> connections are very common). >>>>> It's not a big deal if the MinGW result build is twenty time slower or >>>>> if some of the most advanced modules can't be build. But everyone >>>>> programmer should be able to easily make some C hacks and get them to >>>>> work. >>>>> >>>>> Hoping you'll be receptive to my pleas, >>>>> Cheers >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> * I am currently picking fruits in the regional Australia. I live in a >>>>> van >>>>> and have internet through with smartphone through an EDGE connection. I >>>>> can >>>>> plug the laptop in the farm but not in the van. >>>>> ** No fresh programmer use mercurial unless he has a gun pointed on his >>>>> head. >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Python-Dev mailing list >>>>> Python-Dev at python.org >>>>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev >>>>> Unsubscribe: >>>>> >>>>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/tritium-list%40sdamon.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Python-Dev mailing list >>>> Python-Dev at python.org >>>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev >>>> Unsubscribe: >>>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/drsalists%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Python-Dev mailing list >> Python-Dev at python.org >> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev >> Unsubscribe: >> https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/brian%40python.org
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