----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Peters" <tim.one@comcast.net> > Getting single-evaluation requires picturing reference-to-lvalue, or magical > writeback proxies, or something else equally convoluted: No, sorry, it doesn't. All it requires is a straightforward interpretation of the name given to these operations. You guys called them "inplace". When I heard that I thought "oh, it just modifies the value in-place. Wait, what about immutable objects? I guess it must rebind the thing on the LHS to the new value." Call that convoluted if you want, but at least a few people seem to approach it that way. > they're unPythonic simply because Python doesn't have stuff like that. Just stop right there and sign it "tautology-of-the-week-ly y'rs", OK? > A protocol was invented > for supporting both in-place and replacement forms of augmented assignments > uniformly, but it's a Pythonically simple protocol in that it can be > expressed *in* Python with no new concepts beyond that methods like __iadd__ > exist. Another simple protocol can also be expressed in Python, but since it involves an "if" statement it might not be considered "Pythonically simple". But, y'know, I don't care about this issue that much -- I just don't like leaving the implication that I'm thinking convolutedly uncontested. IOW, yer pressing my buttons, Tim! I'm happy to drop the technical issue unless you want to keep trolling me. > I don't dispute that it surprises some people some of the time, but > I submit that any other protocol would surprise some people too. True. I just think that the trade-offs of the chosen protocol are going to surprise more people in simpler situations than an alternative would have. It seems as though clean operation with mutable tuple elements (among other things) was sacrificed for the sake of transparency with persistent containers. I would've made a different trade-off, but then I'm not BDFL around here. like-a-moth-to-a-flame-ly y'rs, dave
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