Hmmm. Some time ago, Tim asked the question: "Why do you wnat this stuff?". As far as I can recall, he got 2 answers: "So I don't have to 'initialize(Klass)'" and "me, too". I don't think those qualify as answers. Some time ago (cf, types-sig brouhaha of a couple years ago) I concluded that the only purpose for this stuff was __getattr__ and __setattr__ hacks. I reached this conclusion by going nutzo using (Guido's) metaclass hook, and studying the available uses of ExtensionClass (I could find no public usage of Don's elegant madness). I rather liked Guido's "Turtles all the way down" (but his description was so cryptic that my interpretation may have been a hallucination), and I suspect he's still headed that way. Nonetheless, I would like to see this discussion of the elegance of SmallTalk's incompatible model (and how to fudge it in Python) balanced by some discussion of the expected pragmatic benefits. (That's a different topic from subclassing types.) start-with-"if-God-wanted-metaclasses-he-wouldn't-have- invented-proxies"-<wink>-ly y'rs - Gordon
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