Peter, what would you say if someone told you your Python programs would run, oh, 30% faster, but in return for that you could no longer rely on refcount semantics? What do you think *most* people would say? I don't know, but I'm certain I'd hear different answers from different people. Don't fall into the trap of believing that refcounting is a pure win! JPython and Vyper and the MS runtime aren't doing "real gc" just because they want to irritate people <wink>. There are tradeoffs here, and new Python code is probably more interesting to MS than old Python code. I personally don't think you'd find this a big deal if you had *always* needed to do explicit .close()-like calls in Python, and most programmers (across the world and across languages) have never used a language in which they *didn't* need to do explicit closes. Python has plenty of other attractions for them. MS may very well be delighted to leave the legacy Python market to BeOpen <0.9 wink>. remind-me-to-call-uncle-bill-in-the-morning-ly y'rs - tim
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