Paul Prescod wrote: [...] > (irrelevant aside: [...] Most people are sold based on the language > and its libraries before they start trying to install extensions.) > > [AMK] > > If installing things is a problem, then we need to > > buckle down and finish the distutils. So, overall, I'd still vote > > against inclusion in 1.6. > > So are you saying that Python 2 might have only five packages and > everything else must be downloaded? No httplib, no pickle, no random > or math, no calendar, pwd, grp, imaplib, nntplib, mailbox or rexec? > > When people download Python and go to the library documentation that > impressive array of BUILT-IN-FEATURES is part of what sells them on > Python. Hell, I can download all of that stuff for Scheme but what > makes Python beautiful is that I don't have to download it for Python. > It's just there. But if an XML person comes to Python after hearing us > rant about how great it is for processing XML and all they find is > xmllib...they will be underwhelmed. (Nodding in agreement) Could this perhaps be solved with a large batteries-included standard distribution, plus a real easy/effective way to strip Python down and wrap things up for deployment? In other words, aim for two very distinct goals: everything within easy reach for development + fully signed-sealed-delivered products. The first goal can evolve to do fancy net-bourne distribution, even if it is a brittle process, because this is for Python developers. They want it all, so open the floodgate to give it all to them. The second becomes a matter or pruning down and wrapping up. All the way down to an single installation-less executable, if possible. I may well be wrong (and I'm not tracking distutils), but might it not be simpler to focus on 1) power users + 2) production-grade deployment, instead of trying to streamline a tangled-web-of-module-dependencies into a distribution system which tries to meet a wide range of needs? > [...] One of the beautiful things about the Python library is that > everything is at the same version level. When you install it you know > that everything works together or else it WILL in the next patch level > if you report the incompatibility. [...] More nods. So why not allow the Python distribution to become very large - with every release moving to a better-tuned combination of all the different parts (occasional mishaps can quickly be fixed)? Plus some tools to dist(ut)il(l) a turnkey solution from this big soup. Sort-of-from-violin-to-quartet-all-the-way-to-symphony-orchestra... -- Jean-Claude
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