Q: One can kind of see why a movie such as a new version of Charlie and the Chocolate Factory would be brought to your attention. Stylistically one could tell you might have an affinity for it. Plus, you'd already produced a film [James and the Giant Peach] based on one of Roald Dahl's books. How did Charlie come to your attention?
TIM BURTON:
The project had been floating around for a while and studio offered it to me and it was a project that I was interested in. It's all about timing and fate sometimes I think in all about how a movie gets made.Q: Like many of your films, Charlie and the Chocolate Factory and its main character has father issues.
BURTON:
Yeah, I've got some problems. (He laughs) You might have seen me enough to realize that by now.Q: You'd said living in Burbank was idyllic even though your parents boarded you up in a room. Well, what's going on with that? Why did this happen?
BURTON:
My parents are dead, so I guess the answer will remain unanswered as to why they sealed me in a room. I guess they just didn't want me to escape. I don't know. Those kind of things in your life... in movies you kind of work out your issues, but then you realize, those kind of traumatic issues stay with you forever so somehow they kind of keep reoccurring, no matter how hard I try to get them out of my head they sort of stay there.Q: Was there ever any doubt in your mind that Johnny Depp could play Willy Wonka? Did you have the idea of him playing the character to the studio?
BURTON:
No, it was the first time where I didn't have to talk anybody – the studio – into it. (He laughs) It was like before I could even open my mouth, the studio goes, "What about Johnny Depp?" And I was like, "Well, OK, if you're going to force him on me." (He laughs) Johnny is like a character actor in a leading man's body. He's like ready to do anything. He's probably more like Lon Chaney. He's a leading man and he want to transform. He wants to be different characters in different movies. He's an actor that you think about perhaps even for female roles. I don't know. He could do it all. He's very versatile that way.BURTON:
Johnny and I have this sort of process where we sort of speak in the abstract with each other and yet can still somehow sort of understand each other. But we never like to use one reference. I never say to Johnny, "Let's just make it like this." But I remember we did have conversations and we kind of liked the same kind of things. But one of the things we did talk about was that in our childhood, in every city, and I talked to other people about this, too – in every city when you're a child there's some weird children's show host that's got a weird name and he usually has kind of a funny haircut. And we'd watch him as a child, and then as we got older and thing back on him you'd think, "That guy was f***ing weird. What was that guy all about?" It's like Captain Kangaroo? Mr. Greenjeans? Who are these people? Each city had their own kind of regional one that kind of spooked you out a little bit. So, we were kind of using that kind of reference point. The great thing about [Roald] Dahl's writing is that he left that character kind of ambiguous. There's a sort of mysterious quality, nature to that character, that even though we gave him a little bit of a back-story that's not in the book, there's still that kind of weird, mysterious nature of the character that felt important.Q: People are going to say, "What the hell is wrong with Willy Wonka?" Well, what's wrong with him?
BURTON:
I think he just comes across as really emotionally repressed and stunted. When people get traumatized they just sort of kind of shut down. Also related to that, I've met people that are kind of geniuses in one area but are completely deficient in all other social or every other area of their life. (He laughs) So, the mixture of those things was what I sort of thought of him as.Q: And some people are already making comparisons between this version of Wonka and Michael Jackson.
BURTON:
Here's the deal. There's a big difference: Michael Jackson likes children, Willy Wonka can't stand them. To me that's a huge difference in the whole persona thing. (He laughs) We never talked about that at all. Honestly, I never made that connection for the very reason I just said to Steven; it's like Willy Wonka really can't stand children if you really look at it in a certain way. You know? He's got some problems. I guess you could say they both have problems, but we all have problems, you know? It says more about the people making that reference. I can't think of any larger difference. It's almost like night and day if you look at what I'm saying about the response to somebody liking children and somebody who can't stand the sight of them. That to me is like night and day.Q: You and Johnny felt that you needed to deepen the character of Wonka by adding the back-story. Would the movie have been as attractive if you couldn't make Wonka more of a rounded person in that way?
BURTON:
We just felt that is was if you have an eccentric character, it's fine in the book, but it just felt for the movie that if you've got a guy that's acting that strange, you kind of want to get a flavor of why he's the way he is, you know? Otherwise he's just a weirdo. You kind of want to at least have a sense as to why he's acting so strangely and why he's got some problems. If your father were a dentist and Christopher Lee, you know, you can see where that might cause you some trauma. (He laughs) Some traumatic experiences in your life.Q: What's so enjoyably weird about Wonka is he doesn't talk down to children. He's sort of careless in the way with what he has to say.
BURTON:
What I love about the book in Dahl's writing, that's why I wanted to do it. He didn't speak down to children. He was like a adult writer for children. It's the kind of a book where you could read it at any age and get something out of it. He was clever at being both specific and kind of subversive and off-kilter and kind of leaving you guessing a little bit, and we did try to keep that feeling in what we were trying to do.Q: What'd you think of Gene Wilder's take on the character? Was there any thought that you might pay homage to Wilder's performance in any way?
BURTON:
I think he's great. None of us on the production were either trying to top that or look at that. Our goal, except for the little bit of back-story, was to try to be a little bit more true to the spirit of the book. Instead of having the golden goose and an egg, have the squirrels and the nut room. In some cases we tried to be a bit more true to the spirit of the book.BURTON:
To me there were three points: you either hire a cast of Oompa-Loompas; you make them all CG; but I've worked with Deep before, and to me he's just an Oompa-Loompa, you know? There was no question in my mind. So, to have the human element and not the all-CG special effect was important to this. Also, just from my own feeling, it felt to me kind of Dahl-ist, kind of surreal to make him be everybody just because something felt light about that. And also from a technical standpoint it was also more cost effective than to doing this with all special effects shots. We could actually use him in certain shots with certain lenses and camera angles that could interact with Johnny and the kids on occasions. So he wasn't always having to be added in later. Those were the reasons that felt right to me.Q: Charlie and the Chocolate Factory is the first movie from Plan B productions, Brad Grey's production company. Was he involved at all? Did you ever meet with them about it?
BURTON:
No, I mean, Brad Grey was around a bit, but then he got another job. (He laughs)[Editor's note: Brad Grey is now in charge of Paramount Pictures.]
Q: Ironically, the studio wanted a different version of the character Charlie?
BURTON:
Yes, they were like, let's make Charlie more proactive, or let's take the father and make Willy Wonka the father figure. And I'm like, "Willy Wonka is not a father figure, I'll tell you right now!" So, with John [August], we go, "Let's go to the book and just try to start fresh." All the stuff is in the movie to some degree. They're like, "Charlie is just a normal kid and he has to do something and you want to see connection between him and Willy Wonka." And I'm like, "No, you don't." That's why I was lucky to get Freddie. The physicality of him was important. He had to look like he was undernourished and his grandparents are really old and they didn't have much to eat, and if a strong wind blew, Freddie might just blow away. Those are important elements. The simplicity of that character was important to me. [Freddie Highmore] just has that gravity and that's what's really important.Q: Can you tell us about the casting of the kids, the golden ticket holders? They play an important part in making this movie work the way you were hoping it would.
BURTON:
Casting kids is harder than casting adults. I find it difficult. But the good news is, it's like Freddie... I hadn't seen Finding Neverland, but when he walked in the room I knew he was right and I was glad I hadn't seen the other movie. And it was like that with all the kids. You see, a lot of kids, they could be good, and the meat of almost like if you were doing it for a television movie. But these kids all have a cinematic quality. You can see them on the big screen and they are the more cinema version of those characters. You also have to find... even though they're all good kids, there had to be a seed of what they are. I tried to find the seed of what they were, especially for the one's who hadn't acted before. It was important that they had something of their character in them as people.Q: Do you think the squirrel sequence might present something a little too dark for kids?
BURTON:
No, because I mean, that's the thing. I go back and I look at the book and I look at the original thing and we're probably even lighter in a certain way. When you read it in the book it almost seems more traumatic and horrible, and yet this is a children's classic. I think adults forget sometimes what it's like to be a kid. That's why I like the book and that's why I think it remains a classic. You kind of explore those kind of edgier aspects of childhood.Q: Did you have any aversion to the idea that this was a remake? But again, what it is for you is a re-envisioning of the source material, not a remake of the 1971 movie.
BURTON:
I felt for this book, I didn't feel as daunted by the movie because I didn't have quite the same impact for me as other movies and things. So, the intent for me was to try to, even though we changed things, it was like I said to try to be more true to the spirit of the book.Q: And your design influence, as always, is there. Could you just take things in any direction you wanted?
BURTON:
We had sort of complete freedom. For example, we devised sort of what each of the rooms in the factory look like and the Bucket house and the town and all of that. That was just fun because we didn't feel like we were constrained by anything. It had a quite experimental feel to me as we were making it. I enjoyed not quite knowing what kind of plants we were going to make or finding the right consistency with the chocolate so it didn't look like a brown water.BURTON:
No, for me each time is a personal thing. It has to be because you spend so much time on it you have to personalize it. But yeah, after doing a big movie it's like you do kind of get traumatized by it a little bit and maybe next time you do think about maybe on doing that again. It's necessarily a hardcore rule, but I can certainly understand that.Q: You're still working on The Corpse Bride with Johnny?
BURTON:
We're still finishing that.Q: And you were making it at the same time you were filming Charlie?
BURTON:
Yes. It worked well because you could only work with the kids so much during the day. So, you know, we'd work the day and then just go over to the sound-booth and do some voice work on [The Corpse Bride]. It was kind a chaotic situation, but it worked. I'm excited about that one.Q: Did you ever find it difficult to separate making the two films at the same time?
BURTON:
No, because animation is such a slow-moving process sometimes it would be only a few seconds in a week to look at. So, no, it wasn't. In fact it was good in a certain way. For me, I was obviously hard core on Charlie, with The Corpse Bride being a bit slower I could have bit more of an objective feel for it. So in some ways it was really good.Q: Charlie marks your eleventh collaboration with [composer] Danny Elfman. You guys have been working together for such a long time. Maybe twenty-five years. Now you've got a movie where you've worked some of his Oingo Boingo influence in there with the songs for the kids.
BURTON:
That was fun because I used to go see Oingo Boingo in clubs when I was student never even knowing that I would be able to make movies. So, it was kind of fun because it did kind of remind of going back into those sleazy clubs and hearing him play.Q: Have you reached a point where you two can sort of assume you're going to work together?
BURTON:
No. I mean, I enjoy working with him and he's my friend. Who knows, we may have a huge fight one day and who knows. (He laughs) I doubt it. I love working with him. He's like another character in the film, I always feel.Q: A Nightmare Before Christmas appears to have such a lasting appeal. What's strange is so many people think you directed it.
BURTON:
Yes. This is hard to explain – I'll try to explain it quickly. With Nightmare it was completely my developed thing, so I felt so comfortable about what it was; it was so clearly delineated in my mind that I just felt comfortable. With Corpse Bride there was a seed of an idea and so it took more development, therefore I had to be involved in more slightly different level. So that's why I got a little more in-depth with this one and got a little more into that side of it as well.Q: How much do you really encounter your Goth fan people? Do you see them around very much?
BURTON:
Well, I live up in sort of north London near Camden and it's beautiful. They're like they were back in the late '70s and it's beautiful. In fact I was out in the English countryside just a few weeks ago and I just ran into a girl with a Nightmare Before Christmas purse. And it was just so beautiful and touching. I mean, that's the amazing thing. I encounter people every now and then that make me realize that's who you make movies for.Q: What's next for you?
Burton on the set of Planet of the Apes
BURTON: I've no idea. I mean, I have interests. But literally, before being on my way to the Bahamas here, I was in the screening room just finishing up this one. After you spend fifteen hours a day working on your film in a screening room, it's not like, OK, let's go see a movie.Q: Will Charlie influence the direction of any of your future features?
BURTON:
It's not like all of a sudden I'm going to be making the Teletubbies movie or The Wiggles feature film debut anytime soon. I don't think Charlie has altered my thinking. I fact, I'm more inclined to think about making porno movies than I am children's films. I don't know. (He laughs)Q: What would that be like, a porno movie from you?
BURTON:
I only make G-rated porno movies. (He laughs)Q: If this film does well enough would you be interested in doing Charlie and the Great Glass Elevator?
BURTON:
No, and you can count on that from me.Q: Did you save any props from the movie?
BURTON:
I don't try to save too much. I did keep the Oompa-Loompa psychiatrist's chair, which was very appropriate, and it's very comfortable actually. (He laughs)Q: Any plans for Oysterboy?
BURTON:
Oh, I don't know. I think I saw him out there in the fish tank earlier, floating around.Q: Where are the Golden Tickets right now?
BURTON:
You'll have to ask the Warner Brothers people. I don't know. They're on eBay. (He laughs)Q: What did you think about Batman Begins?
BURTON:
It makes me laugh because, when we first made the first movie they didn't even want to put out a trailer for the movie. So, it was like that it went from that to what it has turned into... I was just a little upset that they didn't invite me to the opening of it. It's like, I have a little bit of an issue with them, but it's also great, too. And they just did it in Tokyo which I wish I could have gone to. I was invited to that, but I couldn't go. I saw a tape of it. It was very touching. Very good.Q: Do you still feel a sense of attachment to the Batman film franchise? Do you feel like you'd like to see it do well?
BURTON:
When you're working with the studio you want them to do well because if they're happy, you're happy. And if they're not happy, you know, you may feel their angst a bit more. So, yeah, of course. You want them to do well. All I can say is I felt lucky to do it back then when there hadn't been what I would call a darker, slightly psychology-lite, kind of dark vision of a comic book from that time on. Now, you've seen so many, kind of, dark comic book adaptations I'm looking for the next guy to come in the pink tights and yellow cape. You know? Let's go in the other direction now for a change, shall we?RetroSearch is an open source project built by @garambo | Open a GitHub Issue
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