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On 12/31/2010 12:51 PM, Cesare Di Mauro wrote:
<blockquote
cite="mid:AANLkTimmTOSqc43+qhei=C=p7i8Ry7ufiOZziYMZRpsB@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">2010/12/31 <span dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:skip@pobox.com">skip@pobox.com</a>></span><br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;
border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
<div class="im"><br>
>> Another example. I can totally remove the variable
i, just using the<br>
>> stack, so a debugger (or, in general, having the
tracing enabled)<br>
>> cannot even find something to change about it.</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;
border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
Ethan> -1<br>
<br>
Ethan> Debugging is challenging enough as it is -- why
would you want to<br>
Ethan> make it even more difficult?<br>
<br>
<snarky><br>
I don't know. Maybe he wants his program to run faster.<br>
</snarky><br>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>:D</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>"Aggressive" optimizations can be enabled with explicit
options, in order to leave normal "debugger-prone" code.</div>
</blockquote>
I wish the Python compiler would adopt a strategy of being able to
disable optimizations. I wrote a bug about a "leaky abstraction"
optimization messing up coverage testing 2.5 years ago, and it was
closed as won't fix: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://bugs.python.org/issue2506">http://bugs.python.org/issue2506</a>. The debate
there centered around, "but that line isn't executed, because it's
been optimized away." It's common in sophisticated compilers (as
in, any C compiler) to be able to choose whether you want
optimizations for speed, or disabling optimizations for debugging
and reasoning about the code. Python would benefit from the same
choice.<br>
<br>
--Ned.<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:AANLkTimmTOSqc43+qhei=C=p7i8Ry7ufiOZziYMZRpsB@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div> </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;
border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
If you use print statements for the bulk of your debugging (many
people do),<br>
unrolling loops doesn't affect your debugging ability.<br>
<br>
Skip</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>It's a common practice. Also IDEs helps a lot, and advanced
interactive shells too (such as DreamPie).</div>
<div><br>
Cesare<br>
</div>
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