I come from a corporate IT background working as a drone in large businesses, starting about 30 years ago (argh!). I come from an IBM mainframe background, but with constant exposure and interfaces with other platforms, and writing code with a variety of languages and scripting languages throughout my career. I recently completed a very long and painful transition to becoming at least a part time Java developer. For the past several years I have had a background conversation with myself on the topic of the Perfect Programming Language; what would it look like/feel like. Then I stumbled on Python, and I am totally hooked. I gather this experience is similar to others who are now Python advocates, who are using Python for their personal projects, etc. In the short term, though, for the corporate world, it'll probably be an uphill battle to have major projects developed in Python (or even Jython, which would be the logical choice for a transition out of j2ee to the lamp world). There is some amount of resistance to open source software. The same resistance to linux was overcome by 'respectable' companies supporting and interacting on a corporate level, like Red Hat. IBM certainly helped there, too, like it or not. Python would probably do well to have similar corporate advocates, but that would be an expensive and risky business proposition. Short term, I wouldn't expect to be able to make a big paycheck out of Python. As time goes on and the younger programmers who are using Python on their personal and open source projects get into positions of influence in the corporate world that will change. My thoughts, for what it's worth. Fight the good fight! Michael On Fri, 2007-10-26 at 04:28 +0200, python-dev-request at python.org wrote: > Send Python-Dev mailing list submissions to > python-dev at python.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > python-dev-request at python.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > python-dev-owner at python.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Python-Dev digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Python developers are in demand (Nick Efford) > 2. Re: Python developers are in demand (Facundo Batista) > 3. Re: Python tickets summary (Facundo Batista) > 4. Re: Python developers are in demand (Anthony Roy) > 5. Re: Python developers are in demand > (Kevin Jacobs <jacobs at bioinformed.com>) > 6. Re: Python developers are in demand (Anna Ravenscroft) > 7. Re: Python developers are in demand (Anna Ravenscroft) > 8. Re: Python developers are in demand (Titus Brown) > 9. Re: Python tickets summary (Ron Adam) > 10. Re: Fwd: Deadlock by a second import in a thread (Facundo Batista) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 11:58:46 +0100 > From: Nick Efford <nde at comp.leeds.ac.uk> > Subject: Re: [Python-Dev] Python developers are in demand > To: python-dev at python.org > Message-ID: <472076E6.3090307 at comp.leeds.ac.uk> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > Interesting to see discussion on supply and demand issues for > Python programmers. You might be interested to learn that, > after a few years of flirting with Python in various ways, the > School of Computing at the University of Leeds has recently > switched to teaching Python as the first and primary programming > language for undergraduates on all of our degree programmes. > > I know we're not the only ones doing this, so perhaps the > supply will rise to meet the demand in a few years! > > > Nick > > -- > Dr Nick Efford, School of | E: nde at comp.leeds.ac.uk > Computing, University of | T: +44 113 343 6809 > Leeds, Leeds, LS2 9JT, UK | W: http://www.comp.leeds.ac.uk/nde/ > --------------------------+----------------------------------------- > PGP fingerprint: 6ADF 16C2 4E2D 320B F537 8F3C 402D 1C78 A668 8492 > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 09:13:48 -0300 > From: "Facundo Batista" <facundobatista at gmail.com> > Subject: Re: [Python-Dev] Python developers are in demand > To: "Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at gmail.com> > Cc: " Martin v. L?wis " <martin at v.loewis.de>, Christian Heimes > <lists at cheimes.de>, Python Dev <python-dev at python.org> > Message-ID: > <e04bdf310710250513j75099e7cj7e9d6fb662902472 at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > 2007/10/24, Alex Martelli <aleaxit at gmail.com>: > > > using C++ and Java (and often C), but as far as I know there is no > > Stanford course (at least not within Symbolic Systems) that focuses > > specifically and exclusively on Python (there IS one course, > > In my constant try-to-push-Python-everywhere-I-go, I offered several > times Python courses to educational institutions (sometimes even > free). > > I succeeded some times, but then these courses not thrived year after > year. Normally, this is because the people that is actually taking the > decision of which language to teach in the courses do not know Python, > so is easier to them to keep teaching C. And this happens even if > it's not the better to the students, and even witht the students > asking for the change. > > But this is a problem of educative system here in Argentina, not of > Python itself (it surely get affected, though). > > Regards, > > -- > . Facundo > > Blog: http://www.taniquetil.com.ar/plog/ > PyAr: http://www.python.org/ar/ > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 10:11:28 -0300 > From: "Facundo Batista" <facundobatista at gmail.com> > Subject: Re: [Python-Dev] Python tickets summary > To: rrr at ronadam.com > Cc: python-dev at python.org > Message-ID: > <e04bdf310710250611h6fc6eab2m1ffee69777e8d3d5 at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > 2007/10/24, Ron Adam <rrr at ronadam.com>: > > > > Note that these items are *all* open. > > > > I think the page title should reflect this. Possible changing it from > > > > "Python tickets" > > > > to > > "Python Open Tickets" > > Good point! It's fixed now. > > Thank you! > > -- > . Facundo > > Blog: http://www.taniquetil.com.ar/plog/ > PyAr: http://www.python.org/ar/ > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 13:40:45 +0100 (BST) > From: "Anthony Roy" <home at antroy.co.uk> > Subject: Re: [Python-Dev] Python developers are in demand > To: "Nick Efford" <nde at comp.leeds.ac.uk> > Cc: python-dev at python.org > Message-ID: > <9558.194.200.199.193.1193316045.squirrel at webmail.plus.net> > Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 > > > > Interesting to see discussion on supply and demand issues for > > Python programmers. You might be interested to learn that, > > after a few years of flirting with Python in various ways, the > > School of Computing at the University of Leeds has recently > > switched to teaching Python as the first and primary programming > > language for undergraduates on all of our degree programmes. > > > > I know we're not the only ones doing this, so perhaps the > > supply will rise to meet the demand in a few years! > > I was a researcher in the School of Computing at Leeds Uni about 4 years > ago. Good to see them pushing Python! > > I keep my eyes open for Python Developer roles in the UK (particularly the > North), since I would far prefer to develop in Python than Java. However, > in the UK Python Jobs seem to be few and far between, and most of the ones > that there are are either low paid sys admin type roles, or are based in > London. > > Cheers, > > -- > Anthony Roy > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 10:18:04 -0400 > From: "Kevin Jacobs <jacobs at bioinformed.com>" <bioinformed at gmail.com> > Subject: Re: [Python-Dev] Python developers are in demand > To: python-dev at python.org > Message-ID: > <2e1434c10710250718v3b9d72esf5ee79be7d96a51d at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Just to chime in from the other side of the coin. > > I'm actively trying to hire qualified scientific programmers with strong > Python experience. Unfortunately, I've had little success finding > candidates with actual Python knowledge, resorting mainly to hiring those > who've seen it and can readily learn it on the job. So while it is > encouraging that Python is being used as an introductory language, that > trend has yet to "trickle up" to general availability of more advanced > practitioners. > > (The other reason I am having trouble recruiting Pythonistas is that my > field -- statistical genetics -- tends to be saturated with Perl folk. > Retraining them is a blast...) > > ~Kevin > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/attachments/20071025/d21b98df/attachment-0001.htm > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 07:59:58 -0700 > From: "Anna Ravenscroft" <annaraven at gmail.com> > Subject: Re: [Python-Dev] Python developers are in demand > To: jacobs at bioinformed.com > Cc: python-dev at python.org > Message-ID: > <cb361a610710250759q2afe1f18j895912c7ae2c7f26 at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > I noticed at the Grace Hopper Celebration of Women in Computing that > several major universities in the US are starting to offer intro (CS1) > courses based on Python, among them: > Georgia Tech > CMU > Bryn Mawr > > Some of them are using: > Introduction-Computing-Programming-Multimedia-Approach > > So, it's starting to get out there... > > > -- > cordially, > Anna > -- > Walking through the water. Trying to get across. > Just like everybody else. > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 08:00:28 -0700 > From: "Anna Ravenscroft" <annaraven at gmail.com> > Subject: Re: [Python-Dev] Python developers are in demand > To: jacobs at bioinformed.com > Cc: python-dev at python.org > Message-ID: > <cb361a610710250800p7add7dc3p84c2a0a6710fab92 at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > On Oct 25, 2007 7:59 AM, Anna Ravenscroft <annaraven at gmail.com> wrote: > > I noticed at the Grace Hopper Celebration of Women in Computing that > > several major universities in the US are starting to offer intro (CS1) > > courses based on Python, among them: > > Georgia Tech > > CMU > > Bryn Mawr > > > > Some of them are using: > > Introduction to Computing and Programming in Python, A Multimedia > Approach (Paperback) > by Mark Guzdial (Author) > > > > So, it's starting to get out there... > > > > > > -- > > cordially, > > Anna > > -- > > Walking through the water. Trying to get across. > > Just like everybody else. > > > > > > -- > cordially, > Anna > -- > Walking through the water. Trying to get across. > Just like everybody else. > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 8 > Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 10:00:48 -0700 > From: Titus Brown <titus at caltech.edu> > Subject: Re: [Python-Dev] Python developers are in demand > To: Anna Ravenscroft <annaraven at gmail.com> > Cc: python-dev at python.org > Message-ID: <20071025170048.GE19808 at caltech.edu> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > On Thu, Oct 25, 2007 at 07:59:58AM -0700, Anna Ravenscroft wrote: > -> I noticed at the Grace Hopper Celebration of Women in Computing that > -> several major universities in the US are starting to offer intro (CS1) > -> courses based on Python, among them: > -> Georgia Tech > -> CMU > -> Bryn Mawr > > It's been adopted at Michigan State U. this past year, and I'll be > teaching a Web dev followup course *next* year. > > Python is also being used for bioinformatics at Caltech (not just me) > and at Michigan State (with no connection to the intro course). > > The SciPy conferences have been eye opening as well: adoption here, > there, and everywhere. > > Good to finally see this happening ;) > > --titus > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 9 > Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 14:01:19 -0500 > From: Ron Adam <rrr at ronadam.com> > Subject: Re: [Python-Dev] Python tickets summary > To: python-dev at python.org > Message-ID: <4720E7FF.7080404 at ronadam.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > > > Facundo Batista wrote: > > 2007/10/24, Ron Adam <rrr at ronadam.com>: > > > >>> Note that these items are *all* open. > >> I think the page title should reflect this. Possible changing it from > >> > >> "Python tickets" > >> > >> to > >> "Python Open Tickets" > > > > Good point! It's fixed now. > > > > Thank you! > > > > > Clicking on one of the filter links changes the title back. (No Keyword, > Patch, P3K) > > I think the keyword and keywords interface can be improved. Do you have > any plans in that direction? > > How do you get the data the page is built from? > > Cheers, > Ron > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 10 > Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 23:27:57 -0300 > From: "Facundo Batista" <facundobatista at gmail.com> > Subject: Re: [Python-Dev] Fwd: Deadlock by a second import in a thread > To: "Adam Olsen" <rhamph at gmail.com> > Cc: python-dev <python-dev at python.org> > Message-ID: > <e04bdf310710251927k64995197v3af332c4dbf75f5f at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > 2007/10/19, Adam Olsen <rhamph at gmail.com>: > > > Whether this is a minor problem due to poor style or a major problem > > due to a language defect is a matter of perspective. I'm working on > > redesigning Python's threading support, expecting it to be used a > > great deal more, which'd push it into the major problem category. > > > > For now I'd leave it open. > > It's a matter of perspective, yes. But I'll close this bug, because > he's hitting the problem through a weird way, doing something that he > shouldn't. > > The real problem here, if any, is that you can not make a second > import in another thread. Feel free to open a bug for this, but > addressing this specifically. > > I'd prefer a PEP, though, ;) > > Regards, >
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